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How to Prevent Stream Sniping

Magpieman

Administrator
Staff member
Old One
This is a topic that was brought up at a recent LCR meeting and we wanted to share it with the wider community to get feedback on the subject.

We've had a couple of people who stream Loka come to us with the problem of stream sniping. Now, this is not a new thing, many streamers who play many games have to contend with this. However, the way Loka works makes it more vulnerable to this behaviour than most games. Loka has a limited world with very distinctive landmarks/landmasses. This means it's very easy to locate those streaming, and cover the large distances to them very quickly using Elytras. As a result, whenever a streamer is out exploring the wilds, they are more often than not killed very quickly. Even using a stream delay does not solve this problem because as soon as they stop to explore a ruin or vanquish a shrine, the stream will catch up at least enough to know the rough area the streamer is in. This basically means that the only activities on Loka that can effectively be streamed are conquest fights and building in their town. This is a particular shame considering all the future content we have planned involving PvE. Streamers directly benefit the server, providing free advertisement for Loka, and it's to our benefit that they can show off as many features/gameplay as possible.

Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to this. Traditional MMO's can get around the problem by having numerous servers the streamer can hop between, or servers that straight up don't have PvP. One idea that was brought forward was a 'streamer mode' that prevented them from being damaged by other players and PvPing. This could only be used while streaming. Now, this obviously comes with numerous issues and doesn't prevent other kinds of 'trolling' such as pouring lava on the streamer. Perhaps Loka as a whole needs more areas where you cannot PvP that are dedicated to PvE activities.

We are curious if you guys have any ideas to improve the streaming experience on Loka, or if you have seen another server or game solve the problem. Do you think the tradeoff of giving streamer a special PvP immunity is worth the extra exposure and advertising Loka would get? Perhaps this is just an unsolvable problem. Let us know what you think.
 

NerdieBirdieYT

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Interesting that you bring up lava buckets and the like being used; I hadn't even thought of that. Come to think of it, stuff like ender crystals and such could cause big concerns (unless that can somehow be disabled along with PvP).

The best idea I have right now is the PvP immunity, preferably with crystal protection and the like, if possible. Would love to hear other opinions and ideas, as streaming is definitely better for my college schedule.
 

FamilyTuber

Member
Slicer
Yes, finding a solution to this problem will greatly benefit Loka's "stream-ability." Not only with ones who are trying to stream currently but any future content creators who find Loka and debate whether they should stream here or not. It can definitely be seen as a roadblock yet putting a togglable pvp option for streams can have side effects too. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this as it's a key foundation block for content creators on Loka. The solution should be fair to the community but also streamers.
 

Skuhoo

Well-Known Member
Guardian
Community Rep
PvP immunity is definitely not the solution. Sacrificing fair gameplay for the occasional stream pulling maybe a dozen viewers, over half of which are already Lokans doesn't seem like a good trade at all. If we want Loka to be more streamer-friendly then add streamer-friendly content. If streamers want to stream activities like ruin exploring or shrines then they should plan accordingly by doing things like bringing pvpers along. Any form of streamer protections in survival gameplay will not be a solution players are happy with.
 

koi0001

Well-Known Member
Slicer
This doesn't really sound like an issue which has an easy solution because it feels as if it would create unfair gameplay. That being said wouldn't really be into giving certain players immunity to PVP apart from very specific scenarios e.g. fresh released mechanics.

My biggest problem with this is it sounds like they're just removing a massive part of the game. Loka is a PVP server first and although there are massive PVE elements it will always be centred around PVP gameplay was my thought process.
 

TheFreshLemon

Active Member
Slicer
PvP immunity is definitely not the solution. Sacrificing fair gameplay for the occasional stream pulling maybe a dozen viewers, over half of which are already Lokans doesn't seem like a good trade at all. If we want Loka to be more streamer-friendly then add streamer-friendly content. If streamers want to stream activities like ruin exploring or shrines then they should plan accordingly by doing things like bringing pvpers along. Any form of streamer protections in survival gameplay will not be a solution players are happy with.
I agree if you want to go ruin hunting bring Nabsin.
 

BuscoNombre

Well-Known Member
Slicer
I mean if they are like you and know Lokas land since you've played for so many years you could still possibly find them, but it'd be less likely. So yeah people do this ^
Imagine you go stream to the nether, how much delay should you add. Like you dont really need to know where "exactly" that person is, just have a hint and you can find him easily. Loka isnt that big
 

NerdieBirdieYT

Well-Known Member
Slicer
add a stream delay???
Loka has a limited world with very distinctive landmarks/landmasses. This means it's very easy to locate those streaming, and cover the large distances to them very quickly using Elytras. As a result, whenever a streamer is out exploring the wilds, they are more often than not killed very quickly. Even using a stream delay does not solve this problem because as soon as they stop to explore a ruin or vanquish a shrine, the stream will catch up at least enough to know the rough area the streamer is in.
 

ACwavelength

Active Member
Slicer
the future content we have planned involving PvE
If you're planning things like dungeons make it so players can close the entrance behind them so that only them and their town members can get into it.
Also maybe a reward to other players for fending off attackers from a streamer? Dunno how that one would work, probably similar to bounties. Of course the defenders wouldn't be able to attack the streamer, and to make it easier for them enemies within a certain radius get the glowing effect.
 

NerdieBirdieYT

Well-Known Member
Slicer
PvP immunity is definitely not the solution. Sacrificing fair gameplay for the occasional stream pulling maybe a dozen viewers, over half of which are already Lokans doesn't seem like a good trade at all. If we want Loka to be more streamer-friendly then add streamer-friendly content. If streamers want to stream activities like ruin exploring or shrines then they should plan accordingly by doing things like bringing pvpers along. Any form of streamer protections in survival gameplay will not be a solution players are happy with.
I do agree to an extent, but there are a few issues with this.

First off - waiting for PvE content makes streamers entirely dependent on the timing of staff. I don't know when we're getting PvE content, and when we DO, it will be one thing at a time. As of now, there isn't a reliable way to stream content other than in the safety of Town. Saying to "add streamer-friendly content" means streamers will firstly have to wait for an extended period of time for different PvE content to release (streaming the same thing over and over again is dull); it also means that essentially everything Loka already has is unusable content for streamers. Ruins, Shrines, RIs, even exploring continents, really can't be done without planning beforehand and, even then, the risk of dying and wasting a bunch of time in the stream.

Secondly, the threat of dying does indeed make things more interesting and exciting. My issue with this is that streamers don't have an infinite amount of time and resources. If we're heading to a Ruin or something and die, it takes a good amount of time to restock and head back (but why even head back if you know you'll die again?). This time decreases viewership and adds a lot of dull content (restocking and travelling, if it's decided it's safe enough to go back). Dying in a stream can also just totally ruin the plan for the stream, because if you die once, you'll likely die again, and the smartest thing to do would be to not go back. Additionally, if you die once, that means someone is tracking your stream and can chase you anywhere else on the map, making it extremely dangerous to venture ANYWHERE.

Lastly, bringing defenders. One of the primary benefits of streaming is that it doesn't require much planning or outside time. Loka isn't a huge server. Schedules don't line up easily. Trying to find defenders every time you want to stream requires a good amount of scheduling and relying on other people - not great for a stream. For me personally, I won't always know when I plan to stream. With my college schedule, free times are pretty random, depending on what I need to get done that day. I need to be able to hop on and stream at any point, on a whim, rather than needing to pre-plan with others and depend on their busy schedules.

Is PvP immunity the best solution? I doubt it. But I don't think we can just say "bring defenders" or "wait on PvE content and just use that repeatedly" either.
 

Evil_X

Well-Known Member
Slicer
If you stream on a PVP server having any form of advantage no matter how big or how small is drawing a line between players and streamers making room for players to be angry and removing what makes Loka, Loka. This is an issue every PVP based game mode or server faces and it's designed in such a way the core concept isn't very streamer friendly unless your great at PVP
No matter what fix however the hard truth for streamers is they will have to wait and trust the Loka dev team to get content out quickly to fix the issue, possibly the dev team should be more transparent when they're working on things which would help streamers be confident they'll have more safe things to stream but also helps players see the server is being worked on (I know this idea has been touched on in the past) some sort of monthly development blog maybe? If streamers wanted to stream you can stick in a town building, stream a conquest fight or hide away and try to be super careful and hope you don't die.
This is a tough spot with no real solution, you either make streamers happy, give them a drastic immunity so they can comfortably stream but then we see the players angry and a clear unfair border between both sides or you make streamers wait for PvE content, keep things fair but streamers can't trust that Loka is a viable streaming server and may have to stream less removing advertising from the server.
The fairest thing I could suggest is possibly for streamers allowing alt streaming accounts with fast-travel and some form of keep on death armour and tools to speed up the regearing process but even things like this come at a cost to making things unfair to both sides, there's also maybe the idea of making content for the streamers, giving them more options. Allow them access to pts where things aren't permanent, have them show off and test the new features and explore this land for fun. If they wanted a position where they could go to other towns and have some fun and tour some things but this would mean those players could no longer raid etc which would mean a huge loss in content
Maybe with jobs 2.0 a new way for streamers to have "quests" they'd go through the stream following a pre-made story that allows stream snipers but either way is set up in a fun way streamers get a reward, have a fun storyline to go through and don't have a huge worry on PVP since if they die the job could be set up in a way to give temporary soulbound items. Make these quests regular players could also do
But I don't think we can just say "bring defenders" or "wait on PvE content and just use that repeatedly" either.
In Loka's design unless things are made to be unfair this is just the only real solution we could have until more PvE things come out. If streamers were bringing in more numbers to the server than currently, I think that'd be different, we could work on adding a new randomly generating continent or focusing down on getting content out quicker but the numbers got from that scene I don't believe big enough to warrant any huge changes unless you looked at the numbers and saw a worthwhile future investment that was worth speeding up things.
I will try to keep thinking of possible ideas for this issue and add suggestions but currently whatever happens one side wouldn't be happy
 
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Skuhoo

Well-Known Member
Guardian
Community Rep
Is PvP immunity the best solution? I doubt it. But I don't think we can just say "bring defenders" or "wait on PvE content and just use that repeatedly" either.
Do streamers have to wait for more steamer-friendly content after exhausting what Loka already offers? Yes. Is getting stream-sniped likely to hurt/ruin a stream? Sure. Is it difficult to schedule streams internally with others? Absolutely.

But none of these issues are issues the server should feel obligated to address. Loka is a server made for players, not for videos. If we can offer a place for creators to make content then great, but sacrificing the primary purpose of the server (fun/fair gameplay) to do so is absolutely not worth it. Any solution that makes regular survival content easier for streamers to stream will be inherently unfair to other players.
 

FamilyTuber

Member
Slicer
Thank you for the thought out responses! I find these very valid points. I for one would love to see a more transparent blog/dev update on how things are developing so we can at least know what we can expect/stream in the future. And I love the idea of rewarding players for defending a streamer. This creates an incentive to keep the streamer alive and takes some planning off of the streamer's hands to get an escort. If such a reward did exist, it would make it more likely for people to just come to aid the streamer. Plus, this doesn't 100% make it easier for the streamer as it comes down to player choices making it fair for both sides.

Edit: Furthermore, I've already had the experience of players aiding me during a stream so this reward system wouldn't be changing how Loka works.
 

NerdieBirdieYT

Well-Known Member
Slicer
If you stream on a PVP server having any form of advantage no matter how big or how small is drawing a line between players and streamers making room for players to be angry and removing what makes Loka, Loka. This is an issue every PVP based game mode or server faces and it's designed in such a way the core concept isn't very streamer friendly unless your great at PVP
No matter what fix however the hard truth for streamers is they will have to wait and trust the Loka dev team to get content out quickly to fix the issue, possibly the dev team should be more transparent when they're working on things which would help streamers be confident they'll have more safe things to stream but also helps players see the server is being worked on (I know this idea has been touched on in the past) some sort of monthly development blog maybe? If streamers wanted to stream you can stick in a town building, stream a conquest fight or hide away and try to be super careful and hope you don't die.
This is a tough spot with no real solution, you either make streamers happy, give them a drastic immunity so they can comfortably stream but then we see the players angry and a clear unfair border between both sides or you make streamers wait for PvE content, keep things fair but streamers can't trust that Loka is a viable streaming server and may have to stream less removing advertising from the server.
The fairest thing I could suggest is possibly for streamers allowing alt streaming accounts with fast-travel and some form of keep on death armour and tools to speed up the regearing process but even things like this come at a cost to making things unfair to both sides, there's also maybe the idea of making content for the streamers, giving them more options. Allow them access to pts where things aren't permanent, have them show off and test the new features and explore this land for fun. If they wanted a position where they could go to other towns and have some fun and tour some things but this would mean those players could no longer raid etc which would mean a huge loss in content
Maybe with jobs 2.0 a new way for streamers to have "quests" they'd go through the stream following a pre-made story that allows stream snipers but either way is set up in a fun way streamers get a reward, have a fun storyline to go through and don't have a huge worry on PVP since if they die the job could be set up in a way to give temporary soulbound items. Make these quests regular players could also do

In Loka's design unless things are made to be unfair this is just the only real solution we could have until more PvE things come out. If streamers were bringing in more numbers to the server than currently, I think that'd be different, we could work on adding a new randomly generating continent or focusing down on getting content out quicker but the numbers got from that scene I don't believe big enough to warrant any huge changes unless you looked at the numbers and saw a worthwhile future investment that was worth speeding up things.
I will try to keep thinking of possible ideas for this issue and add suggestions but currently whatever happens one side wouldn't be happy
Really good points here, and some interesting ideas. Many servers offer streamers custom kits along with their rank. Maybe there could be some sort of keep-on-death set that expires a few hours after use and can only be used every X days? That's not unfair, as it wouldn't give OP gear that is above anyone else's, but it means we don't have to worry as much about repeatedly losing gear.

If you're bad at PvP, though (like me), no matter how many times you go back, you'll still die and the stream will be ruined.

Do streamers have to wait for more steamer-friendly content after exhausting what Loka already offers? Yes. Is getting stream-sniped likely to hurt/ruin a stream? Sure. Is it difficult to schedule streams internally with others? Absolutely.

But none of these issues are issues the server should feel obligated to address. Loka is a server made for players, not for videos. If we can offer a place for creators to make content then great, but sacrificing the primary purpose of the server (fun/fair gameplay) to do so is absolutely not worth it. Any solution that makes regular survival content easier for streamers to stream will be inherently unfair to other players.
I honestly do agree to a point. I don't think Loka should cater to streamers, especially as it doesn't have any large streamers at this point. However, I do think Loka can afford to help streamers in some form, not by making them overpowered. However small the viewership of the current Play Button holders is, we have been added by staff for a purpose: to advertise. Streams are great for advertising. As of now, streams are next to impossible. Therein lies the problem.

You asked "Do streamers have to wait for more steamer-friendly content after exhausting what Loka already offers? Yes." One of the things that bothers me about the situation is that we haven't exhausted what Loka already offers. We haven't been able to. When we try, our streams are interrupted with frequent deaths, and we become stuck in the safety of Town with nothing to do.

Loka is made for players, absolutely. We can't make it unfair to players no matter what. To me, PvP immunity doesn't seem unfair, as the streamer couldn't hurt anyone either, and is offering advertising to Loka, but obviously I'm biased and I understand the other side. Again, though, I don't think the only solution needed here is for staff to "make PvE content," because as you said, we can't cater to streamers, and there is absolutely no guarantee that PvE content will prevent/discourage stream sniping, either.
 
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